Talk:Satan

Can somebody source or, if unable to, remove this line?

I don't know if this comes across as nit-picky, but if possible could we get a source on the 4th paragraph line "Nonetheless, belief in Satan has persisted, particularly in the Americas." It is a rather large claim to make without sourcing some study or proof on it. PresidentDuck (talk) 07:00, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

The claim is a summary of the body of text (as per MOS:LEAD) and does not require a citation. The section of Satan in Modernity compares the numbers of those who believe in a literal Satan to other states such as Great Brittain. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 14:46, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Understood. Thank you for the clarification. PresidentDuck (talk) 19:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Restoration of images

I restored most of the iamges recently removed. As mentioned in the edit summary, we should avoid an image-overdose. However, arranged properly, and with the original amount of images, there is no violation of any guidlines. The exchange of images as suggested recently had various issues, ranging from ahistroical and anachronistic interpretations of the images, to an addition of images without any significance to the body of the text. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 15:13, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Dating the Books of Job and 1 Samuel

Hello, I have an edit about the mention of the book of Job and 1 Samuel. I don't have the ability to submit an edit, so maybe someone else can.

In the first paragraph under Historical Development, the Hebrew Bible, this is said: "In the earlier biblical books, e.g. 1 Samuel 29:4, it refers to human adversaries, but in the later books, especially Job 1–2..."

The use of the word "later" to describe the Book of Job in relation to the book of 1 Samuel is inconsistent with other sources, including another wikipedia articles. The dating of the book of Job and 1 Samuel are debatable.

I haven't looked much into this debate, I just thought the wording could be done better. It's possible that the books can be contemporary in some parts, as in, having some overlap in the time of composition or the story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible

"Noth proposed that the entire history was the creation of a single individual working in the exilic period (6th century BCE), since then there has been wide recognition that the history appeared in two "editions", the first in the reign of Judah's King Josiah (late 7th century BCE), the second during the exile (6th century BCE). Noth's dating was based on the assumption that the history was completed very soon after its last recorded event, the release of King Jehoiachin in Babylon c. 560 BCE; but some scholars have termed his reasoning inadequate, and the history may have been further extended in the post-exilic period."

"It is generally agreed that Job comes from between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE."

Books of Samuel#Authorship and date of composition

"Modern scholarly thinking posits that the entire Deuteronomistic history was composed circa 630–540 BCE by combining a number of independent texts of various ages."

"The Deuteronomistic view is that an early version of the history was composed in the time of king Hezekiah (8th century BC); the bulk of the first edition dates from his grandson Josiah at the end of the 7th BC, with further sections added during the Babylonian exile (6th century BC) and the work was substantially complete by about 550 BC."

Book of Job

"The language of the Book of Job, combining post-Babylonian Hebrew and Aramaic influences, indicates it was composed during the Persian period (540-330 BCE), with the poet using Hebrew in a learned, literary manner."

"The language of the Book of Job, combining post-Babylonian Hebrew and Aramaic influences, indicates it was composed during the Persian period (540–330 BCE), with the poet using Hebrew in a learned, literary manner."

It's just one word, but it made me stop as I was reading the wiki page.

Edit: In summary, if some scholars are correct, that both could have been written post-babylonian exile, then the books were written around the same time, and the point about the historical use of "Satan" is not substantial to have under the topic of the historical development."

Edit: Opinion: Maybe the word is just used in the different manners for each to be in accordance to the topic of the respective book. Job has scenes in the spiritual realm. 1 Samuel talks much about human adversaries. This does not mean the word “Satan” developed over time. It just shows different uses of the word. The definitions can exist simulatenously.

12aq11 (talk) 01:27, 22 January 2025 (UTC)